Summary

What really influences consumer buying decisions? In this episode, Chris Lukehurst, Director of Research at The Marketing Clinic, explores why traditional market research doesn't always uncover the real reasons people buy. He discusses the role of emotion in consumer behaviour, how sensory experiences influence purchasing decisions, and why understanding how products make people feel can be more valuable than simply asking consumers what they want. If you're interested in market research, consumer psychology, branding, or customer insights, this episode offers practical ideas for creating products and marketing that connect with people on a deeper level.

 

Key points

  • Most consumer decisions are driven by unconscious emotions rather than rational evaluation, so people buy what makes them feel better, not necessarily the “best” product. 
  • Slight sensory “imperfections” (bitterness, sourness, dryness, harsher textures) can signal health or functionality, making products feel more effective and encouraging repeat purchase.
  • The full sensory journey (appearance, aroma, taste, texture over time) creates a unique emotional journey that differentiates brands and drives loyalty. 
  • Regression interviews reveal how early-life and teenage experiences with snacks, treats, and drinks shape today’s emotional responses, creating culturally shared patterns marketers can leverage.
  • Brands can “train” consumers up to premium products by embedding the same emotional curve in simpler entry products and gradually increasing complexity (e.g., Cadbury buttons to Dairy Milk, then darker, more bitter chocolates).

 

Transcript

Transcrips are auto-generated.

 

Kiran Kapur (host) (00:00):
Hello and welcome. This week we are in the world of market research and I'm delighted to welcome Chris Lukehurst, who is the director of research at the Marketing Clinic.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (00:10):
So it's really understanding those things that the consumer isn't necessarily consciously aware of, but actually really change the way they feel and the way they react to a product. And when you understand those, you can really start to understand how can we create a product that the consumer is actually going to really enjoy having.

Kiran Kapur (host) (00:28):
He's also the author of 'The Shape of Taste 'and you have a lovely subtitle of that, 'Unravelling the Emotional Journey Behind Every Mouthful and How It Impacts Your Consumers', which is a finalist in the Business Book of the Year Awards 2026. Chris, welcome. Obviously market research is your area and I really want to explore that, but how did you get into market research?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (00:51):
Kiran, hello. Thanks very much for having me on. How did I get into market research? I spent 20 years as a marketeer ending up as a head of product development and very much focusing on how can we create products that consumers are going to love. But I saw far too many products being created that were good products that consumers liked, but they didn't love and they weren't moving the dial. Now as Head of New Product Development, I really found that my strength was in understanding consumers and understanding what consumers want. And it always kind of surprised me in the corporate world how people get caught up in what their job is and they kind of forget the consumer and what the consumer really wants. And you've got scientific and technical people that make brilliant products and brilliant insights, but they're not what the consumer wanted or can use.

(01:54):
And so I set up The Marketing Clinic in order to try and help companies really understand what it is consumers want. And that was 2005 when I set up The Marketing Clinic.

Kiran Kapur (host) (02:07):
21 years ago. So can I not just ask a consumer?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (02:13):
You can, and they will make their very best effort to tell you as well as they can. And the problem with that is that when we really try to explain something, and particularly when you get a consumer and they're trying to explain something to a business, they will try their hardest to explain to you in the best way they can. And in that way, they will use logic and they will talk rationally because that's what we're expected to do. Whereas actually at least 95% of our decisions are made emotionally. We don't really think them through. We just kind of react impulsively. We buy what we want, not necessarily what we need. And that is where the marketing clinic is different. We really dig much deeper into consumers' emotional drivers and understanding what consumers want in their unconscious as much as they're conscious.

Kiran Kapur (host) (03:14):
So I agree with you. I mean, there's the Henry Ford quote: If I asked my consumers what they wanted, the customers what they wanted, they'd say a faster horse. But isn't that, and we quote that a lot, but isn't that actually the way they framed the question? What is it you really want? I want a faster horse. No, what is it you're actually trying to achieve? Well, I actually want to get from here to here faster.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (03:33):
It is, and that is true, but there's all sorts of ways that consumers could get there faster. But actually I like quotes like "consumers don't buy the best product. They buy the one that makes them feel better." So yes, you could get from there to there faster, but actually you also want to get from there to there and feel great about the journey. And when you have a choice, you could go buy coach or you could go buy car. And right at the start, cars were no faster than coaches. Which one made you feel better when you got there? And which journey did you enjoy the most? And it's not necessarily a logical reason why that might be. And so it's really understanding those things that the consumer isn't necessarily consciously aware of, but actually really change the way they feel and the way they react to a product.

(04:34):
And when you understand those, you can really start to understand how can we create a product that the consumer is actually going to really enjoy having on and buy and come back for again and again.

Kiran Kapur (host) (04:45):
You've done a lovely article on LinkedIn when you're talking about brands and selling in the snack market. You point out that the snack market is huge. I might go, as I did yesterday, I was hungry, I wanted to do a snack, but I wanted to do something that was healthy. I didn't just want a snack, so I avoided the chocolate bars, but I suspect what I actually chose, which was said it was healthy, possibly have just as much sugar in it or unhealthy fats or whatever. But you were talking about how the psychology of what catches the consumer's eye is really what you're looking for.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (05:17):
There's a number of things there. Yes, it's what catches their eye. And at the moment, what quite often will catch in the eye is if it says it's got a lot of protein in it, increasingly now fibre, pre and probiotics, all these things, they're going to be catching the consumer's eye. Yes, I want something that is going to be healthier so I'll buy it because it says it's got those in it. Great, fantastic. Or they might buy it because it's got less sugar, et cetera. But the next stage is they're going to eat it. And when you eat it, did it feel more healthy to you? So did you feel more healthy after you ate it? You chose it because you wanted it to be healthier. Did you then feel more healthy? If you did, then you might go back and buy it again. But the question that I was going to ask is why did you feel more healthy?

(06:07):
What was it about it that made you feel more healthy? And this is where snacks particularly and food as a whole gets itself a bit confused because I was at a conference the other day and listening to loads of presentations and they're all saying, "Yes, we've got to put loads more protein in. We've got to put more fibre in." The only trouble is it changes the way it tastes and of course taste is king. Everything's going to taste brilliant. Otherwise, consumers won't buy it. And I go, "Well, hang on just a second because taste is really important". But as I said before, it's the way it makes the consumer feel that is more important. So there may be a slight bitterness in that bar or maybe a slight sourness or a slight dryness that if we were really looking to perfect the taste, we would want to cover over.

(06:57):
But actually it might be that bitterness or that sourness or that dryness that actually prompts you to think this is healthier than the other one. And that makes you feel better about it. So it doesn't taste as good as the other one. And if you do a preference test, I'll choose the other one. But over time, which one am I going to come back for again and again? It's the one that makes me feel better.

Kiran Kapur (host) (07:19):
And is it just the taste or could that be the way that it looks as well? So it looks like it's got bits of fruit in it, therefore I think it's healthier.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (07:26):
It's the appearance. It's the aroma. It's the taste, it's the texture. Now, when I talk about taste, I always mean taste and texture, but actually I'm wrong in that in the way that most people approach it. But taste and texture are really intertwined. The taste and texture have got to work together. So yes, I think I can see bits of fruit in it. That's fantastic. So that makes me think it's going to be healthier. When I eat it, can I feel those bits of fruit? So are they in the texture? And can I taste them? Are they in the taste? And if I can taste them, are they very sweet or have they got that kind of sweetness sourness about them which will make them feel healthier? So it's all of those things. And this is what's really interesting because we are not talking about a single static emotion.

(08:17):
So I ate that and I felt healthier, but actually that's not how it worked. As you looked at it, you thought something, you felt something. As you smelt it, you thought and felt something. As you first bit into it and you go on a whole journey and nearly every company that I talk to can describe that sensory journey of a food product to me. They can tell me that it starts like this and then it goes like that and then it goes like that. And then I ask them, "So what's the emotional journey that takes your consumer on? " And I go, "What? Oh, it makes them feel healthy. No, what's the whole emotional journey?" Because every sensory bit actually prompts an emotional response in your consumer and that is your unique emotional journey. That is what differentiates you from every other healthy snack on the shelf.

(09:09):
That is what your consumers will come back for again and again.

Kiran Kapur (host) (09:12):
That's really interesting. So I suppose the question then is how do you find that out? Because am I going to be aware of the emotional journey of whatever it was I picked up at random yesterday and ate while driving because I needed something quick and I also wanted to feel healthy? How would you go to your consumer and say, so it is the emotional journey that you've just been on?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (09:39):
Yeah. Not only were you not aware of it, you also gave it absolutely no thought.

Kiran Kapur (host) (09:43):
Yes. Sorry. Yes.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (09:48):
Yes. And that's the other thing that we all forget is that our consumers are just eating this. And they're probably eating it while they're doing something else and they're probably thinking about, well, I hope you're thinking about your driving, not about what you're eating. So yes, our consumers don't get so involved in the products as we do when we're working with them. But your question was, so how do I then track that emotional journey? Well, as I say, there are trained sensory people that can track that sensory journey and they do it in some booth where they're not distracted by anything else and they can really focus on it, et cetera. That's wonderful. So I ignore that. What we do is we sit with a consumer and we'll get them to taste the product and we'll get them to describe that taste to us in their own language.

(10:43):
Now I'll sit down with a consumer and say, "What does this taste like? " And if I'm really lucky, if they're really, really good, they'll give me four words, one of which will be nice, which is no good to anyone. But if I break it down for them and I ask them, say, "What does it look like? What does it smell like? What's that very first bite like? What's it like as you chew it? " Then I can start to get a lot more words out of them and we can get that. And so we can start to track the consumer's impression of the sensory journey. So that's what's going on for them. Now, the next thing we do is we go into the emotional side of it. I'm hesitating because what I didn't say is right before I do any of that, I'll sit down with consumers and I'll do what we call regression.

(11:33):
Now, regression is I'll sit down with a consumer and I'll say, what's your very early... Let's say we're talking about snacks. "What's your very earliest memory of a snack product?" And they'll say, oh, well, I used to eat these or I used to eat these sweets as a child at a... Great. And I'll listen to their stories about sweets and then snacks as they grew up. And I'll ask them about what their parents ate as snacks or sweets when they were young and they'll tell me those stories. I'll actually then move them from their very earliest age through teenage years all the way up to now, just listening to their stories about snacks. Now, if I do that with any of you, you won't remember exactly what they tasted like when you were a child, but you will remember how they made you feel. And the language you'll use will be quite emotional language about your snacks.

(12:22):
And you'll also talk to me about the snacks that you were allowed and what you weren't allowed. What was an everyday snack? What was a treat? And you'll talk about how you felt about when you were allowed to have the treats and how you felt about the day snacks. And I'll just collect all that emotional language. I'll then put that into a big circle, which will have something between 40 to 70 emotional terms in it. So now I go back to where I was. After doing the sensory journey with a consumer, I give them this emotional circle, 40 to 70 emotional terms. Pick out as many of these terms that for you seem right as you ate this product. And I'll go, oh, it's relaxing or it's calming or it reminds me of some fond memories. It takes me back to being a child. It feels unhealthy or it feels healthy, et cetera.

(13:16):
These are all the terms that I've clicked on. They'll pick those out and then we'll ask them, that's interesting. You said it feels unhealthy. Why do you say that? And they'll talk to me about that. And I'll say, oh, listen, do you remember we did appearance aroma, front of mouth, mid-mouth, rear of mouth? At what point did it start to feel unhealthy? And I go, I say, have another bite. Think about it. And I go, oh, it's as I chew it, I get so - and-so and so - and-so. Now that's interesting to listen to them saying that, but I can also look at what they originally said about the mid-mouth because that's more important because they weren't thinking about it then. So they said these are the things that they said about mid-mouth and this is what they're saying about it feeling in the mid-mouth. Now, because I am a psychologist and because I did the regression work and because I've really got to understand, I will start to understand this consumer in a lot more detail than they feel comfortable with.

Kiran Kapur (host) (14:17):
That sounds very manipulative, but okay [laughter]

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (14:20):
I know why you are reacting like that. And that's interesting for me. What's interesting for a client and what's really interesting is as I do this with half a dozen clients, half a dozen consumers, I start to see what we call a stable picture. That's interesting. So when the product does that, that is the way most people respond. When it does that, that is the way most people respond. And what's interesting about that is invariably it's not, oh, it was bitter there or it was sharp there, it was sweet there. It's, oh, it went from being sweet to bitter and then it became chewy. It's those sequences that really prompt emotional responses and that's really interesting.

Kiran Kapur (host) (15:02):
OK. There's a couple of things I wanted to pick you up on in that. One was you said, I've just done regression work. That is the taking someone back to childhood. Yes. Is that something that you always have to do? I mean, is it key to the emotional journey?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (15:19):
Yes, with every project, we always start with regression work because we've got to understand the emotional evolution that consumers have had with that product. Now in psychology, almost all of your values, your thoughts, you learned before you were 10, arguably before you were five, but we can debate that before you were 10. That's where you learn. Now, of course you can change them, but you are changing against those original parameters. And if you really want to understand how someone and why someone is reacting like they are now, you need to understand that. Now what's really interesting about that is I could run a regression with you and I could start to understand how you are. And that will be very interesting because you are a product of your lifetime and particularly of your childhood. But what's really interesting is all of your peers, so people of similar age of a similar cultural upbringing will actually, they'll all have had their own individual experiences, but a lot of them will be very, very similar to yours.

(16:33):
And so that's why you and your peers have a lot of similar attitudes and reactions to things. And so that's where we can start to find quite a stable response because culturally, most of us respond the same. And particularly when we're talking about food and drink. So party food within a culture has a different efect. Those foods that our parents tried to force us to eat when we were young, that has a psychological effect. They're all the same for us. And so we have similar responses to them.

Kiran Kapur (host) (17:04):
That's very interesting. Okay. I'm still getting my head around the regression work. And the fact that you are locked in, I don't mean locked in, but that you're working against things relatively young. Because I think if you asked most of us, we would say that, yeah, before 10, fine, I was a child, but my formative years were my teenage years when I was rebelling against things. But you are suggesting actually as a psychologist and therefore as a market researcher, you're more interested in the bits before that.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (17:32):
No, I'm interested in that as well.

Kiran Kapur (host) (17:34):
Okay.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (17:34):
I'm interested in that whole evolution. And that's why we take them from that very earliest memories to now. Teenagers, I agree they are the most fascinating. Who liked coffee when they were five?

Kiran Kapur (host) (17:46):
Well, yeah.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (17:48):
But you learned to like it. Alcohol. Can you remember your first alcoholic drink? You probably hated it. Spat it out possibly, but you learned to like it. So yes, we change our attitudes. But again, culturally, very similar. I am of an age where most of my peers learned to drink alcohol through drinking cider. If you are 10 years younger than me, you probably learn through alco pops. And these are cultural similarities and that affects the way that you think about alcohol now. So if you actually, as you go through drinking lager into beer, et cetera, you learn to appreciate those bitter flavours. If you went through alco pops into some of the spirits and particularly the popular spirits there, you probably didn't really learn those bitter flavours. You probably won't go onto whiskey because it's much more complicated, it takes a lot more. And you've never really learned to do that because you went to a much easier route through alco pops.

Kiran Kapur (host) (18:56):
So does that mean, and I'm now speculating, if I was a whiskey manufacturer and I could see that yes, there's a generation that might be coming up that isn't going to go into it, can I launch a campaign that encourages them to explore it? Or am I just on a losing battle because that generation has not developed those tastes?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (19:16):
Well, if you're a whiskey manufacturer, you're doing so well selling to the Far East and Japan that you actually don't worry about it too much. But that is reality. They haven't addressed it in this country. They haven't really kind of attacked it. But there are ways that they could do it. They could do it through an educational campaign, but education is really expensive. So actually it's easier to sell it abroad. But yes, but also maybe if you are a company like some of the big alcohol companies that they could actually start to address it through thinking about... Trouble is of course they're not allowed to do this. They're not allowed to think about entry. So if you're talking to anyone else other than alcohol, you'd say, what is your entry point? And how do you introduce something into entry point that's training them towards your premium products?

(20:07):
And I've done that with chocolate companies, I've done that with all sorts of different food companies. Here's the entry point and we can train them through the different products that we have to our premium products. I've done that with coffee in Africa. I've done it with chocolate in the UK. And so we can do that. Now alcohol's not allowed to do that. When you research alcohol, you're not allowed to talk to anyone below or talk to anyone about alcohol below the age of 18, which just is an interesting point, how do we stop underage drinkers drinking if we're not allowed to talk to them about it?

Kiran Kapur (host) (20:42):
I think that might be beyond this podcast, let's say [laughter]. So can you talk me through, I mean, I'll let you choose coffee or chocolate, either of those get interesting. How does a manufacturer look at that as an emotional journey for their customers and think about the starting points?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (21:02):
So if we're talking about training them all the way through, let's understand what is unique about your emotional journey for your premium product. Where are you trying to get to? And what are the sensory attributes of your premium product that drive that emotional journey? There's likely to be some slightly challenging elements in there. So if it's dark chocolate, there's going to be some bitter elements or some sour elements in there, et cetera. Let's really understand that. So what's stopping your early customers from going there? We understand that. Okay. So let's work it back. How do we get consumers to actually start to think about this is the journey and we quite literally, I do this because we draw a curve and it goes up and down, then it goes around. That's the emotional journey for your premium product. What we want to do is to take that emotional journey, deliver it in your early products in a more subtle way.

(22:08):
So we can then take chocolate buttons at a great example. Cadbury chocolate buttons have got that slightly bitter element to them in the end. You've got that cocoa comes through. It's really subtle, but it's there because CDM, Cadbury Dairy Milk, has got that drier, slightly bitter finish to it. And so you introduce it in the buttons and so that's the curve they're used to from chocolate. That's the journey they enjoy with chocolate. You deliver it in a slightly upgraded way throughout your different products until you get to the main one. And so they're going, all right. So when they then taste the typical one in the UK would be when they then taste galaxy, galaxy is much stickier, it's much sweeter, it's much more of a melt. Now with Cadbury buttons, you've trained them to chew them. Whereas with galaxy, you kind of melt it in the mouth.

(23:10):
It's a different eat. And so that's what you're trying to train them to eat the chocolate and to enjoy the chocolate in the way that you want them to, as opposed to the way your competition do.

Kiran Kapur (host) (23:20):
And then I presume once we are talking a lot about the sensory side, but presumably on the other side is getting the communication, the brand positioning and everything else around that. So I sort of know as an adult, I'm probably not supposed to buy chocolate buttons and consume them myself. I'm supposed to have a slightly more adult whatever that would be. And I might be slightly embarrassed if I bought myself chocolate buttons as course sitting in the car eating them because I've been sort of trained out of it. Is that how the journey goes?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (23:51):
I don't want to talk for Cadbury. but I very much doubt that I'm sure that they would be very happy for you and eat them. And they're not trying to train you not to do that. But what they are trying to do is say, if you enjoy these buttons, you'll also enjoy CDM. And we're trying to get you to like that more than the sweeter, meltier galaxy.

Kiran Kapur (host) (24:15):
Yes. Yes, I do understand. So the other thing you mentioned very much earlier on was you said there are trained sensory people that sit in booths. Who are they and what are they doing?

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (24:29):
Now they're wonderful people and they do a brilliant job. It's just a different job from the one that I do. Typically, it's a white booth that they sit in. So there's no distraction and they're given some food and they can taste it and they can tell you exactly. So if you change the recipe slightly, they will spot it. And whether it's appearance, the aroma, that initial bite, and they could tell you exactly, oh, this is a bit sweeter here, or it's not so sweet here, and they can do that. What they're not so good at is saying, what will the customer think? So we start with the customer and we come back. So it's just a different job. So if you are taking sweet, salt, sugar, fat out of a product, you're probably trying to make it taste pretty much the same as it was.

(25:22):
And that's where your sensory people will be really good at it and they can tweak it and just get it right. But if you are trying to put protein into a product, now I would argue what you need to do is start with the consumer and find out what's their reaction to that. What are they actually looking for? And like I say, I don't think they want it... well, I say I don't think, I know they don't want it to taste exactly the same as it did before. They may tell you in research that they do because who wants their snack, their snack bar? I like that one. If you can put twice as much protein in it and it still tastes the same, great. The only trouble is if you put twice as much protein in it and it still tastes exactly the same, psychology, I don't really quite believe you've got twice as much protein in there.

(26:09):
It doesn't make me feel better about eating it. Whereas if it tastes, and I'm going to make this up, a bit drier, then I know that that's the extra protein and that makes me feel good about it. Whereas the sensory people will say, oh no, it tastes drier. They won't like that. And it's understanding what is it that is going to make the consumer react positively. Obviously, if it tastes awful, they might not. Although Red Bull may argue with you over that. And I'll come back to that. I can come back to that if you like.

Kiran Kapur (host) (26:39):
Yeah, I think we better explore that one. I was actually thinking about medicines because there are certain medicines that you take. I don't want to name brands and name-and-shame, but there are certain medicines and you go, yuck, that was a horrible cough mixture. But psychologically, I believe it's working because it was horrible because cough medicine, presumably when I was a child, was also horrible.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (27:00):
Yeah, it's got to taste awful. Otherwise, it's not doing you any good. And yes, it's trying to get those right. I mean, medicine is a fantastic area, which I haven't worked in prescription medicine. I've worked in over-the-counter medicine. And it's fantastic because compliance is a problem. Yes, I'll take it until I start to feel better, but then I'll stop taking it and actually I should have finished the course. Getting that right, because if it tastes too good, that doesn't work. If it tastes too artificial, that might not be right. Getting that balance right. And all too often medicines started off purely from a scientific point of view. But actually if you take that and then come with a consumer and say, what helps a consumer believe? On a slightly different example, I worked with Voltarol. Do you know Voltarol? So it's a cream that you rub into aching muscles, aching joints.

(27:56):
It's clinically proven. It has an anti-swelling thing and a painkiller in it and it works, but it works after you've rubbed it in consistently for a period of time. It doesn't just work like that. However, when the consumer buys one of these gels, whether it's Voltarol or whether the competition, they decide whether it's working within seconds of rubbing it in.

Kiran Kapur (host) (28:24):
Yes, absolutely.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (28:26):
And so although Voltarol was proven to work, other gels, which we shan't name, which aren't clinically proven, were actually doing much better because consumers believed they were working. Whether it was the aroma, the warming feeling, all of those things were convincing people that this was working. There was no clinical proof that that was the case. So we actually helped Voltarol create a more convincing journey, consumer journey that made them feel within seconds that it was working and then they could keep going. So it's about the feel as you rub it in, about how quickly it dried on the skin, about the aroma, things like that that had nothing to do with whether it was actually working or not, but convinced the consumer that it was.

Kiran Kapur (host) (29:16):
That's a brilliant story. And as a user of Voltoral, yes, it does feel like it works straight away. And of course, when you're buying it, you're in pain. You want something that's going to be quick. "What do you mean I've got to make 20 minutes of the paracetamol to work? I want something to work now". Okay, we need to finish, but I have to ask you about Red Bull.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (29:35):
Red Bull's fascinating. When they first brought Red Bull into the UK, they did all the research and all of it said it'll never, never work. He completely ignored them, launched it anyway. Now he actually did something brilliant with vodka and nightclubs, which actually got it going. But as a stimulating drink, it wakes you up. It's got quite an aggressive carbonation about it, which, which wakes you up. It's also got that very sour taste about it, which most people, when they first try it, think, "Aw!", but it kind of wakes them up and gets them..." And what's interesting is over time, as you start to associate those positive results with those flavours, you actually start to like the flavour. You actually start to like the experience because it's giving you the emotional response that you wanted and you associate the positive with the positive. So that worked really well.

(30:34):
And I did some work for Red Bull at a time when Coke were launching some stimulating drinks that tasted fantastic. They were sweet? They tasted like lemonade. And they were very concerned about, this is about 15, 20 years ago now. They were very concerned about it. What's this going to do to us? A stimulating drink that tastes good, that's a problem. I did the work. I went back to them and said, "Don't do anything. Don't worry about it. " And within a year it was all calmed down again because consumers actually didn't want that sweet, easy drink. They didn't want to take lemonade. If I wanted lemonade, they could drink lemonade. If they wanted a stimulating drink, they wanted something that was stimulating and felt stimulating.

Kiran Kapur (host) (31:20):
That is an absolutely fascinating insight. Chris Lukehurst, I could talk about this all day, but I think we'd better stop there. So Chris Lukehurst's book is 'The Shape of Taste: Unravelling the Emotional Journey Behind Every Mouthful and How It Impacts Your Consumers', and it's available from all good bookshops. Chris, thank you so much. That was absolutely enlightening.

Chris Lukehurst, The Marketing Clinic (31:42):
Thank you very much, Kiran.