Podcast summary: 

In this episode of the Cambridge Marketing Podcast, Kiran Kapur speaks with marketing expert Roger Edwards about the challenges and best practices for delivering online presentations. Roger highlights the key difference between online and in-person presenting and the lack of immediate audience feedback and shares tips for maintaining engagement, such as using chat functions and breaking up content every few minutes.

He also stresses the importance of adapting content to suit shorter online attention spans and using energy strategically to counteract the screen’s dampening effect. Roger recommends scripting a presentation fully before even opening PowerPoint, ensuring slides enhance rather than dominate. He closes with insights on rehearsing thoroughly and structuring talks into clear, focused segments.

 

Podcast Transcript:

Transcripts are auto-generated.

Announcer (00:01):
The Cambridge Marketing Podcast with Kiran Kapur, brought to you by Cambridge Marketing College. See their range of courses and apprenticeships at marketingcollege.com.

Kiran Kapur (host) (00:13):
Hello and welcome. Today we're going to be discussing online presentations, and my guest is Roger Edwards, marketing speaker, consultant and trainer. Roger, welcome. What's the sort of main differences between online and offline presenting?

Roger Edwards (00:30):
Hi, Kiran. Thanks very much for having me on the show. I guess before I answer that question as asked, it's probably worth saying that whether you're doing it online or offline, you still have to have a very strong message. You still have to be very engaging and you still have to structure your presentation so that the audience is ultimately going to take action. But to your point as to what the difference between online and offline, I guess for me it's that lack of immediate body language and feedback that you will get from a live audience. So if you are stood on a stage in a large venue or you're in a small training room, you're still going to have real people sat in front of you. You're going to be able to look them in the eye. You're going to be able to see whether they're sat there with their arms crossed.

(01:18):
You're going to be able to see whether they look bored or whether they look engaged or whether they look excited. You don't really get that when you're doing an online event. Now, okay, if the event organisers are using something like a Zoom type platform or something more sophisticated, you may well have the tiny little thumbnail videos of all the audience. But the reality is you can't genuinely pick up those vibes from the audience on the screen. And some of them may not even have their cameras turned on, so you can't even see them like that. So for me, you just don't get that immediate feedback. And for a lot of people, that can be really, really weird because if you're in a live audience and people look bored, then you're going to have to up your game and engage them. Or if they look excited, then you'll know that you, you're on the right track. But if you're not getting any of that feedback, it's very, very difficult to know how to progress. And you can build in alternative ways of getting that feedback. Maybe there's a chat function or something like that. But for somebody who's used to doing live presentations, suddenly going to an online environment, that lack of personal body language feedback can be quite daunting.

Kiran Kapur (host) (02:38):
It is horrible, isn't, it? Feels like you're sort of presenting into a black hole at times. It's like doing a webinar when you've got slides up and you cannot see the audience at all. So you've obviously got very used to doing online presentations. You have a YouTube channel with videos on it. How have you trained yourself to overcome that lack of feedback?

Roger Edwards (03:01):
As I say, one of the things to do is to chat to the organisers in advance, obviously learn the technology that they're using. I mean, even if they're using something like Zoom, you do have the chat function in Zoom that they can maybe start by asking a question or as you go through, you could say, tell me if that story that I've just told you resonates with you. And indeed, maybe even quickly type a reply to that so that you are getting a response from the audience. Obviously, you don't want to create the scenario where they're going to all sit in there typing in responses to you rather than actually listen to your points. So again, it's a really fine balance, but quite a few of the technologies that we have available now do have that sort of interaction available. It is difficult as you would expect to be trying to lead a presentation, but at the same time, almost trying to keep an eye on the comments because that might knock you off course a little bit.

(04:04):
So it's worth finding out as much as you can about the technology in advance that there's been a few times when I've been asked to speak where they've actually asked me to prerecord the talk. Now that sounds as if, well, what's the point? You may as well just point somebody at YouTube and ask 'em to go and watch that. But what you can say to an audience in those circumstances is that they are watching the video that you recorded live for them, but you'll be in the chat box actually interacting with them as you're doing the talk. And that can be a really good way of overcoming that issue of losing your attention span because your recording's going on and you are responding so you don't have to multitask in the same way. So definitely find out what the technology is like. And I guess that the other thing is to make sure that you understand that people's attention spans when they're watching something online is a lot shorter than it is when they are in a live environment just before the lockdown.

(05:13):
It is not unusual for a conference to be a two day event, and that two day event will start with a 45 minute keynote. Then there may be half hour presentations, there might be breakout groups, there may be panel discussions. One of the things I noticed when we went into Lockdown was that a lot of event organisers actually tried to replicate those entire two day conferences in an online environment. So we still had 45 minute keynotes to start with. They still had hour long panel debates and people's attention spans when they're sat in front of a computer, just not as long as that. So one of the things that I found was that you really need to strip the keynote down. If you're asked to keynote, it's not going to be 45 minutes. It might only be 10 or 15 at the absolute tops. And I think one of the things that I've found over the last couple of years is that when you're doing something online, you really need to change something up every seven minutes or so.

(06:16):
Now that could be you cut to a different angle of your video or you may even if you can do it with the technology that's there, add in maybe a prerecorded segment that allows a transition. So you might do your introduction live as is, but then the technology guys will feed in a video which might last for 30 seconds or a minute just to create a little bit of a change so that the audience almost perks up and think, oh, something's changed here. Or you change the topic or you raise your voice or lower your voice. But when people are online, as you know, they've got emails, they're probably doing a bit of work as well. Their phone might be pinging them. There's so much competing for your attention that you need to make sure that you do something every six or seven minutes to reengage them.

Kiran Kapur (host) (07:06):
Yes, it's interesting the difference between presenting online with slides and doing something like a podcast. I mean podcasting. And both you and I podcast, you accept the fact that people are often listening to you while they're out for a run or while they're cooking. So in fact, their attention is being held by you because they're doing something alongside. Whereas sitting and watching a screen is quite different.

Roger Edwards (07:29):
Absolutely right. And again, I've said earlier on that you are not getting the body language and the feedback from the audience, but in the same way somebody watching a screen is not still not getting the same energy that you might be giving in a real life environment. Now you can really push yourself and make yourself engaging. You can talk fast, you can vary the tone of your voice, but there's just something about screens, isn't there, Kiran, that almost strips out some of that energy and it makes it hard for people to concentrate. I mean, I was actually watching an online webinar yesterday and they were having all sorts of technical glitches. So the sound was about a second behind the person who was speaking. And I just can't watch that and people will zone out. So we have to be very careful that the technology matches what we can actually say to the audience in those circumstances.

Kiran Kapur (host) (08:37):
So I was going to ask you more about energy. You are a very energetic speaker and it comes across very strongly on your YouTube videos. How do you do that? Do you whip yourself up into being energetic? Are you always energetic? Do you make yourself additionally energetic because you're putting on a performance? Do you do?

Roger Edwards (08:56):
It's a really funny one actually, isn't it? I think I am actually naturally enthusiastic and naturally come across quite motivated. But like anybody, I still get incredibly nervous just before I'm about to go on stage or if I'm about to go online. And I remember many, many years ago, I came up with this image in my head of an airliner, sat on a runway about to take off. And just before it takes off, obviously the captain pushes on the throttles and the engine start to spool up, and you get that lovely moment where the engines start to roar and then the captain lets off the brakes and the plane goes flying down the runway and you've got that takeoff momentum and up you go into the sky. But you know that once those engines have been revved up, they've got to stay revved up in order to keep the plane in the air.

(09:51):
And I've always had that image in my head, and I still use it today. I think it originally started with a Boeing 757, but I don't think we have Boeing 757s anymore. So I'll probably have to update it to something more modern. But I've always had that image in my head that I'm sort of revving myself up, and once I go, then I have to stay revved. And one of the things, it's a bit like what I said there about the screen seems to suck some of the energy out. I've noticed this with video and indeed psychologists back this up, when you are on camera for whatever reason, it seems to dilute the energy that you put in. So if you are naturally quite a slow speaker when you come on video, it will look like you are crawling. So even if you're really fast and you're really loud and you wave your arms around and you vary, the pitch of your voice, video will still dampen some of that energy. So when you're doing an online presentation, you almost need to dial it even higher. So I'm not a fan of saying 130% because you can't really go higher than a hundred percent, but literally you have to aim a lot higher than you normally would. So if you are normally a 90% person, you really want to be thinking about 120, 130% so that once the camera has done its diluting effect, once the camera has done its dampening effect, you'll be back to where you naturally are.

Kiran Kapur (host) (11:28):
So I get that. I love the plane image. You also have a mantra about 'don't go to PowerPoint first'. Now, this obviously applies to online and offline, but I suspect specifically also applies to online. So I suspect we all know about death by PowerPoint, but why not PowerPoint first?

Roger Edwards (11:52):
Yeah, I mean, again, one of the things that I have noticed with quite a few conferences recently is that people will still use loads and loads of slides. And the online screen that you often see is just the slide, and then right up in the top corner there's a postage stamp person talking, which you can't really see. So that just adds even more to the fact that people might get distracted because then just looking at slides and not really seeing the animation of the person who's giving the talk. But I guess Kieran, that I worked for a long time in big corporates, and you always get that sort of the way that big corporates work. Some manager will say, will you do me a deck of slides for this meeting tomorrow? And it'll be a strategic update or sales update. So the first thing you usually do is you'll go into PowerPoint, you'll type a heading in sales update or strategic update, and then you'll go through and you'll do heading, and you'll do bullet point, bullet point, bullet point, and that's how you create the presentation.

(12:59):
Now, that might just about work for something internal in a corporate like that, but when you're actually going out and talking to an audience, that's not really the right way to structure your presentation because ultimately PowerPoint becomes your scripting tool as opposed to something which actually adds value or adds emphasis to what you're actually talking about. So what I found that if I go to PowerPoint first, I'll just do what I used to do in corporate. I'll say this is the heading, why marketing needs to be engaging, not enraging. And then I'll do intro slide and it just becomes quite dull. So what I've conditioned myself to do now, and admittedly this has taken many, many years, is to leave PowerPoint right until the end. Don't even open PowerPoint until you've actually scripted and structured the entire talk. So you need to think about who's the audience, what's the big idea that you've been asked to put across?

(14:04):
And obviously you'll work with the organisers of the event to work out what that big message is. Can you create almost like a strap line from your big idea? So Ron Seal always does what it says on the tin. What's your version of that strap line? I just said, one of mine is engaged, don't enrage. I weaved that into my presentation. So what's your big idea and how can you create a strap line out of that? Once you've got the big idea, then you want to think what the actions I want the audience to take. What emotions do I want them to feel? What knowledge do I want them to go away with that they haven't got now? And then once you've got those goals, you then structure your presentation. And I like to use a series of segments. And then finally, once you've got that structure together, you've got an introduction, you've got an ending, and you've got those segments in the middle with your big idea, then you go back and think, okay, how can PowerPoint add to the words that I've put down on paper or type upon to the screen?

(15:06):
Is it pictures? Is it quick video clips? What it probably isn't though is heading-bullet point-bullet point, or just lots of text. You don't want to be that person who stands up at an event and says, immediately when you put your first slide on, "I imagine most people at back won't be able to read this, but". You think, oh, for goodness sake, 'well, why did you put it up on the screen in the first place?' So PowerPoint last and make sure that it just enhances what you're saying rather than becomes your script, or worse, it becomes your crutch.

Kiran Kapur (host) (15:41):
So how much do you find you actually use slides and how much do you use other props and things when you are online presenting?

Roger Edwards (15:50):
Yeah, I mean, I have to admit, Kiran, that way back again in big corporate days, I was probably Mr. Death by PowerPoint. I did turn up at conferences with 150 slides and I had a few people saying to me, "Mr. Edwards, you've got 150 slides, so you do realise you've only got 15 minutes on stage". "Oh," I said, "don't worry, I'll go through them very quickly". And then there was a time when I went to this event and it was one of these round robin style events where you stay in one room and the audience keep coming in and out, and you'll probably do the same presentation about five, six times during the day. And then the audience move around and you stay where you are. And I was at this event and just before the first audience came in, I was checking everything was working and the bulb blew in the projector, and it was quite a big bang and a big puff of smoke.

(16:48):
And as you would expect, the event just didn't have a spare spare projector or indeed a spare bulb. So I found myself in this room with people just about to watch a presentation, and I had no ability to project the slides. So I had to do the presentation on a flip chart. And actually that was a revelation because (A) it made me work without the slides, but (B), it made me work harder to engage the audience. And because the bulb blew at the beginning of the day, I had to do it another five times during the day without the slides. And to be perfectly honest, ever since then I've genuinely done what I've said to you before: I script it sometimes word for word, sometimes just bullet points: work on the goals and the segments; and then maybe five or six slides, 10 at the most, which will be mainly pictures that I get from something like PixaBay on the internet or Pixels, and then a few words over them. So if I do 'marketing can be annoying' I might find a picture of somebody screaming that scream picture, and then I'll just put over it 'engaged rage' or something like that. So it's something that adds to the narrative as opposed to becomes something that you're going to let the audience sit and read.

Kiran Kapur (host) (18:17):
So there's actually two bits I want to pick up on that. One was your use of the word segments, which I'll come to in a second. The other thing I wanted to ask was how often do you practise a presentation before you give it ?

Roger Edwards (18:29):
A lot! If it's a new talk, I will rehearse it a lot. And by that I mean I will go through various stages. I read a book a few years back called by a guy called Michael Port, and the name of the book escapes me, but he takes you through various different ways of rehearsing.

(18:54):
So the first way of rehearsing is just to sit down and literally read through either the script that you've written or the bullet points that you've written so that you effectively become absolutely accustomed to the structure and the narrative.

(19:08):
Then he does what you call a table read, where you actually do the same thing, but you read it aloud so that you can hear it in your voice. And then he will actually say, rehearse it again, actually stood up and walk around as you would on the stage. And you might walk over to the left for point number one, and you might walk over to the right for point number two. And I often do that quite rigorously. Certainly for a new talk, I will probably rehearse many, many hours. Obviously if it's one that I've done before, I will revisit it if I've not done it for a long time. But things do sink in and you do become comfortable with the material. So what I definitely do with something new is rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it. I really just genuinely don't think you can wing it, not today, because people can see through that.

Kiran Kapur (host) (20:07):
Okay, thank you. And the other question I wanted to ask, and this will be our final one, would be on the segments. So you mentioned segmenting the presentation. So how does that bit work?

Roger Edwards (20:19):
What I tend to do is if it was a 10 minute presentation or a 20 minute presentation, it would probably be an introduction followed by probably only one segment and then a conclusion. If it was a half hour, it might be an introduction, two segments and a conclusion. And effectively each segment, it goes back to what I was saying earlier, Kiran, about changing things up maybe every five to seven minutes, certainly if you're doing it in an online environment. So each segment will apply to one of the points that you want to make. So if you have your big idea, you might have three subpoints that you want to make about that big idea. And each of those subpoints could be a segment. And a segment consists of usually something that will attract the audience's attention again. So hit them with a startling fact or hit them with a bold quote relating to that particular point you want to make.

(21:20):
Then tell them a story, a real life story that either you've experienced or it's one that you can use as an example that's happened to somebody else. For example, the story I told about the projectable blowing. And then just summarise what the takeaway from that particular story is relating to the point that you're trying to make. And then the final bit of the segment is usually a call to action for the audience. And therefore when they listen to the talk, they're getting those five to seven minute chunks, each of which hopefully tells a story that they'll remember. And therefore, because they remember the story, they'll also remember the call to action that results in that story. And then at the end, depending upon how many segments you've talked them through, you'll summarise the presentation and hopefully finish with a bang.

Kiran Kapur (host) (22:16):
And what sort of bangs do you finish with something that sort of encourages them to go out and go forth and do something? So it's an actual action point?

Roger Edwards (22:26):
Yeah. I like to start with what I call the blistering opening. So that's usually, I mean, one of my, I'll go straight on stage and say something like, "marketing is broken, it's busted kaput, except when it's done with integrity and obsession and a real understanding of the customer" rather than just going out and saying, "hello, I'm Roger, and I'm here to talk about marketing". People just remember that blistering, that opening it. Oh my goodness, it makes 'em sit up and you can do something similar at the end, perhaps do a callback to what you said earlier. So in that example where I started by saying, "marketing is broken, unless you have the understanding of the customer". You might just finish, "Well, now we have that real understanding of the customer, Marketing's no longer broken because you know how to fix it", or something like that.

Kiran Kapur (host) (23:21):
Roger Edwards, thank you very much for your time. If you are interested in Roger's YouTube channel, and I did spend an awful lot of time yesterday having a look at it, you can find that by Googling Roger Edwards, Michael Port, I've just looked up, has written a number of books on presentations, but 'steal the show'.

Roger Edwards (23:40):
It's called Steal the Show. Yes, that's the one. 'Steal the show'.

Kiran Kapur (host) (23:43):
That seems to be his classic, but he has written many others. Roger Edwards, thank you very much indeed for your time.

Roger Edwards (23:50):
Thank you, Kiran. I really enjoyed that. Thanks you so much.

Announcer (23:54):
The Cambridge Marketing podcast from Cambridge Marketing, college, training, marketing and PR professionals across the globe.