Podcast Summary: Marketing a Theatre Production

Matt Wake and Kiran Kapur discuss how you market a theatre production. From unique selling points to building a brand, Matt Wake shares his experience producing a show at the Edinburgh Fringe and methods of creating visibility for the show. 

 

Key Points

  • The show is a dark comedy that explores themes of control, manipulation of narrative, and the power of storytelling.
  • The large ensemble cast of 8 actors is being used as a unique selling point for the show.
  • The company is using a variety of marketing tactics, including flyering, public performances, and building their brand, to stand out at the crowded Edinburgh Fringe.
  • The company's goals for the Fringe include making industry connections and building their audience and brand.

 

Podcast Transcript

Transcripts are auto-generated 

Kiran Kapur (host) (00:00):
Hello and welcome. This week we are at the sharp end of marketing, looking at marketing on a shoestring budget and taking a product to a marketplace, but a very specific product and a very specific marketplace.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (00:13):
We are trying to build a brand that says we are not just there to makers, but we are people that are here for discussions about the industry and about art, and we are here for conversations with other people. We're here for connecting with other people with other companies.

Kiran Kapur (host) (00:26):
I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Matt Wake, who is an actor and about to be a first time producer for a show at the Edinburgh Fringe. Matt, welcome. Let's start with what your product is for this Edinburgh Fringe Show.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (00:41):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so our product is a play called The Players of Diadon, and the Players of Diadon is a dark comedy about a tyrannical king who rules over a fictional kingdom set in no specific time, no specific place. And this king, the King Diadon and has a group of players, actors who he forces to perform the same story every night for his own egotistical amusement. And it's the story of his ascension to the throne. And this has been happening for thousands of years, and one day the king grows bored of the story. He's seen thousands and thousands of times. So his solution is to kill the actors and get in a fresh group of actors and that will solve the issue, but they convince him to let them live if they can create something new for him, a brand new story, which has never been done before in the kingdom. And that's where our story begins. That's the product.

Kiran Kapur (host) (01:41):
Fantastic. So there's sort of Sheherazade overtones and possibly some sort of modern political parallels that you might be able to draw as well.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (01:49):
Very much so. Yeah. Our whole idea was we wanted to create something that was a really good, fun night out, really unapologetic, fast school comedy, but as you said, absolutely something with some serious undertones that especially in this day and age, talking any kind of themes around autocracy, they hit close to home right now. So it's a comedy, but as I say, it's a black comedy and we do touch on themes of control, of manipulating narrative, the power of storytelling, both for good and for bad. And yeah, we do, we walk that line.

Kiran Kapur (host) (02:24):
Fantastic. And how big is the troop?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (02:27):
Yeah, so it's a cast of eight, which for an Edinburgh fringe show actually is pretty large. We made the show in our final year of drama school. So the eight of us were, in fact, we've recast one of the roles because one of the company isn't available, but the majority of us all trained together at the Guilford School of Acting where we did our three years. We got our acting degrees there, we made the show in that time. And so at that time we didn't know we'd be taking it to the fringe. We didn't know in what capacity the show would exist, so we weren't thinking in terms of what size does the cast need to be. It was a devised show, which for anyone that's not in theatre or hasn't worked in drama before, devising is essentially creating a brand new play without a script from scratch.

(03:18):
And that's what we did. And the script kind of came later based on what we were able to create in a studio together. That's why it's a cast of eight, which as I say for Edinburgh is quite unusual, but we are kind of trying to use it as a USP really and make it actually, a lot of the times you'll go to Edinburgh and you'll see some studio theatre comedy or you'll see a two-hander play maybe that's really quite intimate, whereas our show is really loud and bold and in your face. We are sort of trying to celebrate the fact that we are a big team. And that's not something you're going to get everywhere you see at Edinburgh, and we're hoping that will draw people in to see what we've see, what we've made.

Kiran Kapur (host) (03:55):
Interesting. So you're doing that classic marketing a thing of taking something that could be a weakness and turning it into a strength in a USP?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (04:01):
That's the idea. Yeah. And actually, so we've performed the show once before in a studio theatre here in London, which only seats, I think it's between 60 and 70. And that was a real test run for us about, well, first of all, would the show work at all? Because it was the first time an paying audience had ever seen it. And for that performance we were really quite nervous because it's what we call a black box theatre, which again, I'm sure for anyone familiar with theatre knows what that is. It's a studio theatre. It's not where you are in a dark room. It's all quite contained and quite intimate. And there's only, as I say, between 60, 70 seats in this particular one. And we were really nervous when we got there. We were like, is this going to work? Because as I say, it's a bold story.

(04:43):
The characters being a farcical comedy, the characters are really quite larger than life. And we have this ensemble of wacky, bonkers, strange archetypes that really are bold in their presentation. And by some strange miracle, it worked and we were able to present something that whilst it was in an intimate space, it almost pushed the boundaries of that space. And we made the show coming out of lockdown after the COVID pandemic. So we were really keen to make something and we'd been rehearsing shows in our course that were socially distanced and we couldn't interact with each other. We had to work, work on plays in a way that completely went against the script and it went against an actor's instinct. So we were really keen to do something that was big, filled with movement, filled with tempo and high stakes, and for whatever reason, even a black box studio seemed to contain this story. Well. So we've got a slightly bigger venue in Edinburgh. We've got a slightly bigger audience size. So we're confident that if it can work in a small studio, that we can really push those boundaries and really make it sing and really make it sort of vibrate in an even bigger space.

Kiran Kapur (host) (06:00):
Excellent. So you've got your product, you've tested it out, you've got a USP, which is always good, and you've got a great backstory because putting it together when you're coming out of lockdown and so on. So now you've decided that you want to take it to the Edinburgh Fringe. So for anybody listening who's not been or doesn't know about it, can you just describe the Fringe, what the Edinburgh Fringe is?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (06:23):
Absolutely. Yeah. The Fringe, the Edinburgh Fringe is a really, really special event. It's a arts event that takes place every year in Edinburgh. It takes place for the whole of August, so it's a month long. And at the Edinburgh Fringe, you can see any kind of live performance you could possibly think of. So there are dance performances, there's standup comedy, there are some really intimate tense topical plays, there's interpretive dance, there's music, anything you could possibly imagine, you can come and see at the Edinburgh Fringe. And the beauty of it is, is the whole city comes alive. Any pub or conference room or theatre or even hotel lobbies, anything you can think of that could possibly fit some kind of performance in it kind of does. The city becomes a party and there are hundreds of venues across the city, so you might spend and shows take place across the day.

(07:26):
So a typical day at the Edinburg Fringes, you might go into town, let's say for 10 o'clock, pop to a pub, go upstairs and see a standup comedy, 10 in the morning, hour long show come back down. You might then go to the other side of town and sit in a proscenium March theatre and see a full scale musical. You might then go later on to kind of an underground sort of club and see some jazz music perhaps of an up and coming jazz artist. So it's a hotbed of variety for different arts that you can see. And really for young artists and particularly theatre makers like myself, it also acts as a trade show. So the Edinburgh Fringe in August is where industry people are going to be, whether that's producers or agents, commissioners for TV shows, all these kind of what we sometimes colloquially refer to as gatekeepers of the industry are going to be in Edinburgh at that time. So for people like myself and my company, it's a real opportunity to get up there, present something, and try and get some eyeballs of the people that are shopping around looking for their next product that they want to sort of take on and promote.

Kiran Kapur (host) (08:38):
So what you've described is sounds amazing, but it also sounds quite chaotic. You've got people there. So if I can at 10 in the morning go and see a standup and then at lunchtime go and see something completely different, and then there's in the streets and everything else, how do you make your show stand? And this is the real crux of the marketing side. So what are you going to do to make, and presumably you haven't got a huge amount of budget to do this on. How are you going to get an audience to come to your show?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (09:08):
That's the million dollar question. Again, I can largely speak for theatre mostly because that's kind of my sector. I'm sure musicians and comedians or dancers might have a different answer for you in regards to taking their show to the fringe. But speaking as an actor and I guess now theatre producer that's taking a show, the question of how could you possibly stand out amongst a sea of live performances is a question that all of us theatre makers will ask ourselves, and it doesn't have a simple answer. It really is drawing on every possible opportunity and avenue to get yourself out there. You can. Now, the first thing I'll say is that the Fringe themselves, the Edinburgh Fringe have fantastic resources for young artists regardless of whether where you are on your journey that are taking a show there. So even on the Fringe website, they have articles and forums all about what can I do to make connections before the fringe?

(10:10):
How can I best spend my time while I'm there trying to promote shows? So they really offer a fantastic service in just helping you understand what it is you're in for and how to get the best out of it. They also have an artist's office, which are a team that you can email call anytime, and you can send them all your resources, any of your marketing material, and they'll come back to you and say, okay, we've looked at your show. We think you should be getting onto contact with this publication or this newspaper, or We think this review will be perfect for you. Why don't you reach out to them? The kind of first way of how can I stand out is really using what the fringe give you and taking their expert advice. They really are champions of art and they want people to succeed and they want the fringe to be a place where audiences can discover new things that they wouldn't have thought to see back in London or wherever they may be from, but they have this opportunity at this amazing festival to do. So that's number one is really talking to the fringe, using them as a resource.

Kiran Kapur (host) (11:07):
Yes, I was having a look on their website this morning and I was amazed by the amount of detail that they give you, the advice about making certain that you can get the right venue and what you need to ask a venue. We'll come onto that so a bit later on. But yes, there is a huge amount of detail that just pours out and some great marketing advice I have to say on their website. So you can use the resources there, which is always really good advice. I mean, if somebody's prepared to give you free advice, then clearly you should be jumping at it, particularly from a source that knows what they're talking about. So what next? I have a feeling Gorilla Marketing is going to come into this at some point, but

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (11:43):
Absolutely. Yeah, so for anyone that's been to the Fringe, you'll know that there's a huge street in Edinburgh called the Royal Mile, and it's right in the centre of town, and that basically becomes a hotbed for flyering. So you can walk up and down the Royal Mile and what some people might find an annoying part of the fringe, but is also quite a special part of the Fringe is you will have people pushing flyers your way, handing out flyers left, right and centre trying to get you to come to their show. So you'll spend however long walking up the mile and you'll get from one end to the other, you'll start empty handed and you'll get to the other end with maybe 10, 15, 20 flyers. And that's actually quite fun because then you can then sit down, take a pew, have a sandwich, get a beer, whatever you want to do, and go through these flyers and see, okay, well this one's at 12 o'clock, so I've got time to fit that in my schedule.

(12:33):
This one I could see tomorrow at five o'clock maybe. So flyering is huge part of the festival for any company that's going, even the big star name comedians that go, we'll still have people out flyering trying to get people in. So it's definitely doing that. And I think something we've done is try to think, okay, well we are going to be one of many artists handing out flyers. A lot of it's word of mouth, but then how can we use that opportunity? How can we maximise that and make that look a bit different? How can we make even our flyering stand out? So what we are planning on doing, and again, a lot of companies will think to do similar, is almost like a kind of public performance mini vignette, like a taster of the show. What can I give you rather than just handing a flyer to you as me, Matt Wake an actor in the show, what can I give you to entice you more, but more importantly, to give you a clearer feel of what the show is rather than just what you see on the page.

(13:29):
So our show, for example, is about this ensemble of wacky bold characters and the story's told from the eyes of a newcomer that comes into that world and the characters are all heightened sort of unrealistic farcical characters. And the newcomer that the lead character, Rick, is very much the straight man in comedy. And so we've planned to publicly perform in Edinburgh small sequences and scenes up and down the mile that our idea is someone's walking along looking at flyers, suddenly they hear something going on around them. And then there is us acting out just a few seconds long scene of part of the play, part of these wacky characters and what you'd be in for. And then there's the opportunity. Then take a flyer, handout a flyer. So almost like a mini flash mob maybe might be of a good way to describe it. So kind of public stunts like that.

(14:23):
We've also had ideas of making huge banners and walking up and down the mile in character. That's the thing a lot of the flyering can be done in character. It's about, as I say, flyering is in an escapable part of bringing a show to Edinburgh. Everyone does it. It's about how can I make that unique? Those are just a few of our ideas, but I'm sure another company taking a different show might have a different idea about how they might make their firing or their printed press material more enticing. So it's being creative with the standard form of what everyone's doing. How can you put your own company spin on it?

Kiran Kapur (host) (14:56):
So you mentioned that it's very much a trade show, so presumably you've got two audiences in mind because on the one hand I'm assuming that if you perform to nobody, but they were all major, you had an audience of six, but they were all major trade show people that could open up opportunities to you, that would still be a success or you could perform to an audience of, you didn't say how big the venue is, but a bigger audience. But if they're none of them trade shows, is that still successful? So how are you balancing those two audiences?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (15:27):
Sure, sure. Yeah, so I think a large part of, I guess marketing generally is of course building your brand over time. So I think our company that's, so our show is called The Players have Died, and my theatre company is called Hideout Theatre and Hideout. We've tried to, we've been going, we created our first show in drama school, which we all finished about four years ago now. So we've been an operating company for four years, and over that time we've tried to build an identity that is old storytelling, which pushes the boundaries. So for example, I mentioned earlier our first show, this show when it was first on a couple of years ago in London was a massive over the top physical piece in a very small studio. And you don't often get farcical comedies in that kind of space these days. And so our whole idea is creating stories that really push the boundaries and that are bold and conceptually original and conceptually unique.

(16:28):
And then alongside that, we're trying to build a brand that says we are also about giving young artists a platform and listening to what young artists have to say about the industry and how we can give them a place in that. So for example, a couple of years ago we ran an event with another company called Lights On, which was all about, it was essentially we put on a scratch night, which is an evening of 10, 15 minute performances of theatrical pieces written by young artists trying to get a start in the community. Young writers, young playwrights that are trying to build their momentum of their career. And then we invited guests and connections to that and you tried to use it as a marketplace event. We also used to do, which we're bringing back very soon, a play giveaway where if you share our social media posts, drop us a, like you are entered into our play giveaway bundles, we'll announce a bundle of plays that we'll be giving away to one lucky follower on our social media platforms that someone will win that that batch of plays, I think it was bundles of five plays we did get sent to you for free just to encourage more engagement with theatre and more engagement with playwriting.

(17:36):
So small things like that is about building our brand of, we're about two things. We're about bold storytelling, but we're also about engagement with the community and trying to build up artists and build up the arts and make them something that young people want to engage with. So I think that building a brand inevitably hopefully builds an audience. We want to be seen as that brand that's by young artists for young artists. So we are hoping within the circles of the industry that comes across and that will be a demographic that comes along to the show. But then equally, I think if you build that as your brand, it's easier then to get industry eyes on it as well. So I think in terms of the industry connections that we are inviting to come see the show, that we're already trying to establish relationships now nice and early, we have something to show them.

(18:24):
We can say, look, we've built a following based on this identity and this ethos that we've created. And as I say, we are still young, we're still learning our trade, but we're hoping that will go a long way into making us a company that producers will want to get in touch with and will want to work with in the past. So I think that the question of the two separate audiences, they can go hand in hand. And I think if you try and build one audience, if you do your job well, the audience built up of industry connections and potential people you want to work with in the future will follow suit.

Kiran Kapur (host) (18:58):
So you are building a brand and your brand is around Hideout Theatre. So tell me how you've been building that brand.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (19:05):
Yeah, sure. So I mean largely it's about what are we doing when we're not working on a show. So being actors and theatre makers, making a play from scratch takes a great deal of your time. So it's about being smart with your time. Okay, that's our time in the studio making a show. How are then we creating an identity that people can see because ultimately the people that are going to be seeing the show and the people we want to work with in the future aren't in the rehearsal room with us. So it's about treating our connections and our brand building as a whole separate job. And I guess the ways we've been doing that, as I say, are really trying to establish work that's not just making the show. So like I mentioned, the play giveaway and the Scratch event that we put on, it's ways of saying, look, we are here to give young artists opportunities and to encourage engagement with theatre.

(19:59):
So it's about, I think we are trying to build a brand that says we're not just theatre makers, but we're people that are here for discussions about the industry and about art. And we are here for conversations with other people. We're here for connecting with other people with other companies. And of course, largely how you do that is social media. We launched our play giveaway via our Instagram page and we announced our scratch night via Instagram page as well. So that really has been our foundation for building a following. I think we're about to in the next couple of days, fingers crossed, cross a thousand followers, which will be a little milestone for us. Excellent. And the nice thing about young actors and young theatre companies is that everyone wants to listen to each other and wants to help each other. So for example, our scratch night that we put on a little while ago, in fact we've got another one coming up now to raise money for Edinburgh.

(20:50):
We are putting on an event at Riverside Studios in Hammersmith, I think we've got six companies. So as Hideout we're hosting the event. We've got six external companies coming in to share 15 minute sections of their work. Then after the show, the performances are done, we then have an opportunity to speak about the work together, talk to the artists about what we saw, ask them what their plans are for the future development of that work. Do you need an actor? Do you need a director? Oh, well I know someone that could help out with this. Where's your funding? Do you need help with that? Can I put you in touch with someone that might be able to find some money for this project? It's all about on the ground in-person contact and word of mouth and really establishing connections. And that's really not just with theatre making, but any creative endeavour.

(21:35):
I think when you are in your early years of your career has to be about who can I help? Who can I listen to, who's making similar work to me? Who can I do a job for? And again, it's about having the willingness to do that, the passion to do that, and it not being about making money or making a name for yourself. It has to be about how can I help other people's work and how can I let them help mine? So hide out really using our social media first and foremost as a platform to put our stuff out there so people can see. But then that has to be supported by on the ground, face-to-face, connections, going to events, going to see shows, mingling with other companies and other artists and making connections because even small ones, you never know where they might lead to. And that's also another part of what Edinburgh is about as well and what it's fantastic for.

Kiran Kapur (host) (22:26):
Brilliant. I'm glad you came back to Edinburgh. So what will be a success for Hideout theatre? And for you, what would success? Because one of the things with marketing is we do a lot of word of mouth. We do a lot of outreach, we do a lot of brand building, but in the end we have to have controls and measurements and things. So what do you view as a success?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (22:47):
It's a tough one because, and we've spoken about this internally, of course, we're trying not to put too much pressure on ourselves. So I think because it's our first time going to the Edinburgh as a company, there are companies that will go year after year after year and it becomes kind of their bread and butter and they have a wealth of knowledge. And so they're maybe a lot clearer on what potential outcomes may be than we are. I've been to the fringe many a time as an audience member, but I've never been as a performer before. I think we have an ideal scenario, sort of the best case scenario is that we present our play and an artistic director of a regional theatre or a producer comes and says to us, we like your product. We want to now work with you and create a plan together using their resources and their knowledge.

(23:39):
We want to create a plan together of now where we can get this show on again in, as I say, in potentially a regional theatre, maybe a run at a theatre in London somewhere, but basically someone who just believes in the project and can see the vision that we have and that will help us create a life, a life beyond the fringe. We are, as I said, as I think I mentioned earlier, I'm a producer on the show, but it's the first time I've ever been a producer and not just an actor in a project. So I'm very much learning what that is, what that means, and my colleagues and my partners in the company will say the same. So we're really enjoying learning as we go, but our knowledge, we are learning as we go. This is a first time experience for us. So I think best case scenario would be to connect with a seasoned producer or a seasoned company that commission plays and for them to want to engage with us and work with us further.

(24:39):
As I say, beyond that, that's a best case scenario. Otherwise we are keeping it quite loose because we don't a hundred percent know what to expect from the outcomes. So I think an ideal situation for us would be just to make some more really strong connections. As I say, it's making connections here in London at events is fantastic, but to go to Edinburgh and to engage with the company, they come see our show, we come see theirs, and just to start to think about, okay, is this a relationship that could bear fruit in the future? What skills do you guys have as a company that we don't? And vice versa. So I think there's the best case scenario of Edinburgh turns into the next chapter for this show. And then beyond that, I really think it's just about staying open, being proactive, going to events, listening, being patient, and being open to who we might meet and what might come.

(25:37):
And I think if we come home and that's all that's happened, I think either way we've taken a show to Edinburgh for the first time, we will have learned a great deal. And even just the experience and the knowledge we've gained from that we can then build on for our next production. I think you have to be realistic as a young artist and as a young actor, unless you are very lucky success and doesn't happen overnight. And I think it's taken us four years to build this show from an initial idea to a full scale production that's ready to go on at a big theatre in Edinburgh. We're thrilled about that and we're incredibly grateful for that. That's taken four solid years of hard work. We're not in a rush to then suddenly be the next huge in London theatre company. We are quite happy. I think to be a young artist, you have to enjoy learning and you have to enjoy the challenge and you have to embrace the unknown. I think that's three things we've done so far and we've enjoyed doing that and served us well. I think we're willing to do that some more and to see what happens next as well.

Kiran Kapur (host) (26:34):
Excellent. The one thing we haven't discussed from a marketing perspective is the price. I mean, you have costs on this. How are you hoping to cover those?

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (26:42):
It's a question. We have a crowdfunding page. So Edinburgh Fringe partner with crowdfunding to make a platform called Fringe Makers. [https://crowdfund.edfringe.com/p/the-players-of-diadon] So anyone that's taking a show to the Edinburgh Fringe can create a fringe Makers page. And that's very similar to an ordinary crowdfunding page. You can put a video on there talking about your show, talking about what you're doing to raise money and where the money's going. And then you can have donations, people can donate money, you can offer rewards for different sizes of donation. So at the moment, I think we've got on one of our rewards is if you make a 10 pound donation, you received a signed digital poster from the play signed by all the actors as well as that you can use that crowdfunding page just to also track how you're doing so that people can see where you are on your journey.

(27:34):
And the best part as well there is that there being a Fringe Maker's page rather than a typical crowdfunding page, crowdfunding don't take any commission. They understand that the majority of people going to the fringe are really scrapping to try and get the money to put it on. So that's a really small part of it. Beyond that, again, it's about being creative. So we've got a couple of fundraising events coming up. We've got this night app. As I say I mentioned earlier, we're putting on a scratch night at Riverside Studios, which again, similar to what we've done in the past, is a culmination bringing young companies together, sharing work, all tickets from that will go to the show. We are also doing a couple of London previews before we go to Edinburgh. This is a really typical thing that theatre companies do before they go to Edinburgh as well, is do a couple nights in London to create that last little bit and buzz of Buzz on the London Circuit because a lot of London artists travel up to Edinburgh for August.

(28:29):
So we've got two nights at a theatre in London in late July. All the money we make from those will also go back into the show as well. We've reached out for sponsorship, so we're a cast of eight and a full company. Everyone on the project included, we're a team of 10. All of us have trained in the arts in some way and have been working in the arts for some years. So between us, we all have connections, whether it's companies we've worked with in the past or companies we have a loose connection with that we'd like to develop that we're emailing, pitching our show and asking for sponsorship. And again, a lot of that is what can you offer in return? Is it something, is that a relationship where you can offer them something down the line? So yeah, simple sponsorship emails. And then yeah, again, it's about being as creative as you can. Again, we are bringing back our play giveaway, which we haven't run for about a year now. We're bringing that back this week. I believe we're announcing the batch of plays that can be, they're up for grabs on our socials this week. So again, any donations that's going to be a one pound donation to our Fringe Make's page is one entry. You could donate as many times as you like. The more pounds you put in, the more single entries you get into the pot. So again, that's one way of doing things.

Kiran Kapur (host) (29:52):
Good plug. Good plug there, Matt. Well done. Okay, so what I'm getting is, and I think what's coming across the audience is the huge amount of work that goes into putting on, it sounds like I'm going up to the Edinburgh Fringe and I'm going to put on an event, but actually there's a huge amount of marketing and publicity that has to go on in the background. Just before we finish, I better let you actually say where the show is and when it is actually at the Fringe.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (30:20):
Yeah, absolutely. So the show is, as I say, it's called The Players of Diadon. The company is Hideout Theatre in a co-production with a company called Stoke the Embers. And we are going to be on at the Gilded Balloon in their venue called Patter House. So the Gilded Balloon are the venue company and the building itself is called Patter House. And the show is running from the 16th to the 24th of August. So we're doing 10 performances across 10 days, 16th, 24th, Gilded Balloon, Patter House in Edinburgh,

Kiran Kapur (host) (30:51):
Matt Wake. Thank you very much indeed for that insight into the a huge amount of work that goes on and the marketing that needs to be done for a theatre production. And best of luck with the show.

Matt Wake, Hideout Theatre (31:00):
Thanks so much for having me, Kiir. It's been a pleasure.